For a brief time I had a blog called Apologia over at WordPress.com, but since I was unhappy with the limited customization available to free accounts (and do not have the time to play with CSS), I eventually opened my blog here. Having said that, I had written a post there (23/Oct/06) on the now-famous quote originally authored by Stephen Roberts, a former acquaintance of mine from my days in #Atheism on the Dalnet IRC network. The quote is: "I contend we are both atheists; I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours" (The History of 'The Quote'). That article has generated a few comments from readers that happened upon it, but I am trying to divert traffic away from that inactive blog so I am going to start responding to comments here. The most recent comments are from two visitors, named "Kerin" and "DM."
Kerin writes:
How can you talk about rationality when… argh forget it, I’m over the whole debating about the existence of god, you don’t know, I don’t know there that settles it! happy?
It is a good thing she did not finish that first sentence, because in all likelihood she was about to make a complete fool of herself. And an unfinished sentence leaves nothing to respond to, so I am going to look at her agnostic assertion at the end. The fact of the matter is, the assertion that "you don't know, I don't know" is settled ONLY under an agnostic view. I am certainly not an agnostic, so she has no basis other than her own agnosticism to assert that I don't know—and I could really do without her shoving her beliefs down my throat. She is entitled to her agnosticism; she is not entitled to impose her views upon me. She can tell me about the things she doesn't know, but she cannot assert anything about what I know.
DM writes:
You describe Mr Roberts as "a good-natured fellow with a fantastic sense of humour who seemed to enjoy debate," then disregard that his comment is valid because it is clearly of a mocking nature. That you’ve read so deeply into it makes me believe that you’re terrified it is true. Then you (ironically) set yourself up against a religion (pantheism) that admits no god and accuse Mr Roberts of using a “straw man” tactic. Also, quoting Scripture as proof of your God is circular logic and you should be burned at the stake for such heresy (note: that’s humor…)
There are quite a few problems with DM's comments.
First, validity is not determined by the tone of a comment ("a mocking nature"); validity falls under the jurisdiction of logic. And as anyone can see (assuming they have a basic grasp of reading comprehension), my post critiqued the comment using logic, showing how it invalidated itself, under its own terms (with zero regard to tone). The comment utterly contradicts itself, intrinsically; it is a contradiction to "contend we are both atheists" in the context of a participant believing in "one fewer god" than another: (a) If Steve believes in one god while Mike believes in two or more, it is valid to say that Steve believes in "one fewer god" than Mike but contradictory to assert that either of them are atheists; (b) If Steve believes in no gods while Mike believes in at least one, it is valid to say that Steve believes in "one fewer god" than Mike but contradictory to assert that Mike is an atheist. The comment graphically impales itself on logic, regardless of its tone.
Second, I am not terrified of any truth. I love truth, passionately assert truth, constantly seek out truth. If you have something you contend as true, bring it forward; I would absolutely love to examine it. When one has a firm commitment to logic as I do, truth claims have no terrifying capacity (especially self-contradictory ones) because one is not operating emotionally but, rather, logically. Now, having invoked logic, I should like to identify your remark as an ad hominem fallacy, i.e. your comment regards the arguer (me), not the argument, and therefore fails the test of relevancy. Congratulations.
Third, to say that pantheism admits no god is false, displaying a lack of familiarity with pantheism. It does admit a god: the universe. Pantheists deify the cosmos (which atheists and myself deem a peculiar and impractical sentimentality).
Fourth, I argued that Roberts' comment is in danger of committing the Straw Man fallacy. How? Roberts said that "when you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." One reason I dismiss the god of pantheism is because replacing "the term 'nature' with the term 'god' is superfluous and obfuscating outside the scope of sentimentality." If Roberts is consistent, he has to admit that he rejects the God of Christianity for the same reason. But it would be fallacious for Roberts to do so because Christianity is not a pantheistic religion.
And finally, I never use Scripture to prove the existence of God, so your criticism is irrelevant and vacuous.
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